+11
Implemented

Weapons Sound the same in FMOD (A response to Leo)

Yos 1 month ago in All Platforms / PC • updated by whatamidoing 4 days ago 20

Leo's Original Quote:


>The difference in rifles on distance is now much smaller due to the nature of shots over distance and their echo. This will take some time and skill to get used to unfortunately, they are recognizable by bullet caliber and secondly by unique clanks.  

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They are not recognizable individually or even necessarily by caliber. The video below shows weapons of similar classification (handguns, long rifles, carbines, and machine guns) pitted against each other. The results show that the sounds between weapons of similar classifications are by and large the same. If there is a difference between them it is so minute that players will have a very hard time being able to tell the difference, where as at present you can easily distinguish what weapon is being fired and where the shot is coming from. 


If by "clanks" you mean the bolting/cocking sounds I highly disagree with this, not necessarily because a player wouldn't be able to tell what gun a player has based on these sounds, but rather because the actual distance in which you can hear this sound is incredibly small. The tactical value in this is quite low and will often not be of any benefit to a player, as Verdun is 1. A predominantly medium-long range oriented game and 2. If a player can actually hear these sounds they more than likely already have seen/know an enemy is there. 


The weapons compared against one another in chronological order:


K98AZ VS SMLE

Lebel VS G98

Mousqueton VS K88

Webley VS Modele 1892

Lewis VS MG08/15

Luger VS Ruby

1911 VS Reichsrevolver


The comparisons pitted weapons of similar classification against one another, however these were all still completely different firearms chambered for completely different rounds, in several of the clips the weapons sound identical while in others the difference is barely noticeable. This is both unrealistic and completely undesirable for gameplay. As I've stated, at present the current sounds work well, you are able to easily identify where players are based on gunfire and all the weapons have their own unique sounds. Without an extensive rework of the gun sounds the importance of sound will be drastically reduced as the ability for players to effectively identify enemy positions based on gunfire will be heavily diminished. 


Additionally as has been pointed out by Korv (and others) the ambient noises are overly loud and do a great deal to help drown out the actual sounds. 


Lastly for whatever reason gasmasks greatly muffle all sounds a player can hear in the game, this is in spite of the masks not actually covering a players ears (at least according to the models). 



Actual sound heard while using a gasmask:




Based on this it is clear that there will need to be extensive efforts made to correct the various issues plaguing the new sounds and adjust the guns to actually have unique and identifiable sounds as is currently present in the game. Although I do not believe that any of this is actually particularly pressing. The game is losing players by the day and it is clear that nobody in this community actually cares about a sound update. What we have right now works and has very few issues, the only obvious issues being the lack of reload sounds on the BAR and RSC, however this is very minor and is not all that important. Personally I suggest that the focus be moved onto other much more pressing issues like bugs and Verdun's heavily needed new content (squads and maps). Players can currently enable these "new sounds" with FMOD so if there is truly any desire to use them players do have the option. Spending time and resources on correcting the new sounds is pointless, especially when you consider that this sound update will benefit the game in no way. Players are not going to be returning to Verdun for a sound update, nor is anybody sticking around because of one. On the contrary if you decide to push these new sounds out without fixing them, you will once again be contributing to the games decline, yet another botched update that brings the overall quality of the game down is not something this community needs right now. It should be pointed out that there have been virtually no calls or requests for these sounds to be released, and essentially nobody has ever complained about what we have in the game at the moment. 

Game Version:
290.10961
Reproduction steps:
Play opentesting on the latest Version. 
Output Log:
Gameplay Weapons

Answer

Answer
Implemented

comparisons.wav


To avoid all confusion and close this ticket, attached is a comparison to the video posted (25 meters distance, same order of guns). We did in fact address the issue after OP posted. 


After playing with these sounds for 6 months, I can honestly say that its mostly a matter of getting used to, I can actually distinguish them myself in combat. The pat-pat of smle's versus the deeper bangs of the mausers and french weapons for instance. 

Under Review

Game Audio Squad is looking at it, thanks for the feedback.

rare video footage of the devs handling feedback

+1

10 bucks says they add the sounds exactly how they are and lose players over it.

You called it, we've got the shit sounds

Well gr8war47 said that sounds are realistic so they must be

-3
Implemented in upcoming version

In the current version, most 3rd person weapons and their reverb patterns have been adjusted, to enhance their distinction. 

The mask muffling will remain to emphasize the claustrophobic effect. 

+1

unf ohhhhh yessssssss gas masks weren't made cancerous enough when we threw a rainbow filter on them so let's also take away hearing for muh claustrophobic atmosphere even though the ears are visibly not covered

SO basically people should just never use gas now cause it's just going to be completely awful to fight in, not only is vision impaired but you can't hear shit;


Verdun Helen Keller addition

Don't worry, there will still be plenty of gas squads made by noobs for the MP18.

+2

Anyway aside from the meme that is the gas mask sound muffling, the supposed changes don't seem to have done anything. 


- Ambient noises are still far too loud and overpowering

- Guns still sound the same


The footsteps are a nice improvement, but overall FMOD is still a mess.


I will post a video which details the same comparisons later, but my position remains the same. These sounds aren't really aimed at actually improving the overall sound quality, it's just based on "immersion" and at present they do nothing but decrease the overall quality of the game play. The same questions stand to you Leo, how much demand is there for a sound update? How many people actually wanted these new sounds? Aside from a few vocal fanboys on the forums and some people with ten hours who answered a poll I am doubtful anybody really cares. This is the very definition of a non-issue and no more time or resources should be allocated to this. It is clear that Verdun is dying, we're at a point where our numbers are what they were in 2014 (EA). It's clear that the merge update sent the game into the downward spiral in which it is still currently in, as people said at the time, making Verdun more like Tannenberg is a terrible idea. These new sounds make Verdun more like Tannenberg, and if they are forced onto the game they will further contribute to the decline of the game. At this point it is also clear that Tannenberg is a flop, you can claim Early access for as long as you want, but even when the game is eventually released it's not going to sustain a real player count like Verdun did. At present the average for Tannenberg is lower than at any other point in time for Verdun, there is no excuse for this. Tannenberg cannot even maintain more players than 2013 Verdun, a game that was fresh out of browser, had ps2 era graphics, and no real fanbase or notoriety. On the contrary Tannenberg fails to out perform this in spite of all it's obvious advantages and the ability to immediately be advertised to over a million Verdun owners, a number which you so gladly tout when discussing how few players you've banned from the chat/forums. Once again the point being that making a dying game (Verdun) more like its failed brother in Tannenberg is an awful idea. 


If an actual team is working on the sounds remove them. This may sound rash but they've proven to be incompetent and are not needed for the ensured sustainability of Verdun. As stated we don't need sounds, we need content and REAL bug fixes. A team/group that doesn't contribute to this isn't needed. If the sounds are an additional task of another team then have them shift their focus to other more important tasks as opposed to wasting time on FMOD. If people like Ranjid want to be Helen Keller then they can be, but FMOD should not be a priority any longer and it has no business being released into the game. 


Additionally I am going to assume that actually radically changing the sounds of the weapons is fairly difficult at this point. You probably only recorded so many firearms and based on what you recorded/how you recorded it all you've got at this point are a bunch of similar sounds. As such further efforts to try and fix the issues of similarity are probably futile, which is probably why the supposed changes have done nothing. 


While all of this may sound harsh, most of it still remains true and I write it in the hopes that the correct moves will be made to ensure Verdun's survival. 

-1

how about you add the muffled sound effect to artillery shelling...you know, whre it actually makes sense.

yes because having mortars that can be called in every 45 seconds by anyone with atleast 2 braincells is not cancerous enough now we have to become deaf to it too


The game is dying temujin, making it worse is not going to fix it, improve optimisation, bugfixing, not make it more realistic, making Verdun like its failed brother Tannenberg is just going to make it worse (look at player count, people clearly do not play a game because it is realistic, they play it because its fun, and your amazing idea is just an anti fun idea that will furthermore buff mortar, a mechanic that is already frustrating enough to deal with)

+1

>We're spending time and money to update and 'improve' the sounds

>As part of our 'improvements' we're making it so you can't hear half the time because 'immersion'


This is a solid plan. 

Answer
Implemented

comparisons.wav


To avoid all confusion and close this ticket, attached is a comparison to the video posted (25 meters distance, same order of guns). We did in fact address the issue after OP posted. 


After playing with these sounds for 6 months, I can honestly say that its mostly a matter of getting used to, I can actually distinguish them myself in combat. The pat-pat of smle's versus the deeper bangs of the mausers and french weapons for instance. 

If I didn't have a list of the weapons I wouldn't be able to tell you switched still, and at 25m you'll probably be able to see who's shooting at you without a problem anyway. Do the recordings at 70-140m for a better test.