Community Input Needed

IF ever planned, this is how to bring ammo crates into Frontlines without encouraging campers

RS 12 months ago in All Platforms • updated by Temujin 2 months ago 5

As the title says, these are just some idea in case the devs go looking for feedback if they ever decide to bring ammo crates from Squad Defense into Frontlines.


It's often been requested on the Steam forums and imo the inclusion of "ammo dumps" in Tannenberg's Maneuver mode (see FRONTLINE NEWS from Sept. 29) will only lead to more requests to put them in Verdun's main mode.


Now, ammo crates aren't needed for most roles and most players, but those with special weapons (MGs, Wex, Trenchgun) or armed only with pistols CAN run out of ammo fairly quick, especially if the player is half-decent or -god forbid- actually uses his MG to help his team with suppressive fire instead of lying somewhere at the end of a trench for 5 minutes, waiting for 1 enemy to walk around that single corner.


Ammo crates also resupply grenades in SD, and you will definitely run out of those in Frontlines

So there would be SOME benefit in bringing them to Frontlines.


One argument often brought up against having them in Frontlines (rightly so imo) is that they would further encourage campers/"snipers", but I think that  actually depends on exactly HOW ammo crates were to function if put into Frontlines.


Imo, implementing them like this would not encourage players to camp anymore than they sadly already do:


1. Put 2-3 ammo crates at strategic positions in every trench. Depending on size of the trench, you might want to put more on larger trenches and less on smaller ones. Argonne trenches could have 1-2, Flanders 3-4, etc.


2. Make it so that they are only active during your own team's DEFENSE to prevent MGs and "snipers" from camping in their own trench during the team's turn to ATTACK.

They also can't be used by the attacking enemies to keep things fair. Otherwise you'd get people throwing 5 nades to get inside the trench and another 5 nades right after getting into the trench/to the crate.


3. Make it so that only the ammo crates in the friendly trench CURRENTLY being defended are active to prevent MGs and "snipers" from running back to the ammo crates in their rear trenches and camping there with a huge stash of ammo. If they want ammo, they'll have to get their asses to the actual frontline.

(If THIS gets accepted as well, all the better: http://bugs.verdungame.com/topics/1352-make-rear-areas-desertion-zones/

4. When your team captures a trench, the ammo crates inside (which you could not use before because they were the enemy's) should only become yours after a cooldown of ~15 seconds to keep things fair. (see 2.)


Perhaps couple this with a text message (or even automatic audio lines from NCOs?) along the lines of "Dig in, they're coming back"?


5. Let each player have 1 resupply per PHASE to prevent people from having near-infinite amounts of ammo/throwing 12 grenades in a row. 1 resupply per LIFE would only lead to lots of suicide-bombing and other problems.


6. When your team switches from DEFENSE to ATTACK, everyone on the now attacking team gets ~15 seconds to get their 1 resupply for this phase before the crates are deactivated.


People that busted their ass defending their own trench should not be forced to kill themselves/respawn just so that they don't have to assault the enemy trench with very litte ammo and/or no grenades.


Perhaps couple this with a text message (or even automatic audio lines from NCOs?) along the lines of "Grab your gear and move out"? [More things telling players to go for the objective are alway good]


7. Let ammo crates resupply your grenades along with ammo, but only half the original amount rounded up, so you always get at least 1 grenade after running out of grenades.

8. Give ammo crates the same "deactivation range" as spawns. In other words: If there is an enemy inside a certain radius around that particular ammo crate, it can't be used until the enemy is dead or otherwise gone.



All in all, I think this would prevent bullet/grenade spam and make it impossible for campers to have infinite ammo IF ammo crates are ever brought into Frontlines.


It would definitely be an interesting thing to see in Frontlines and could perhaps even introduce a new layer of strategy into the game - imagine if capturing the hill in the 1st Entente line on Artois or the "finger" in the 1st German line on Argonne meant that you just cut the enemy team off from their resupplies (if they don't want to walk all the way to the other end of the trench).

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6.  I would give a little more time for players to resupply after successfully defending their trench. (e.g. 30 seconds) Since players could be a good distance away from any of the crates. (Especially if there's only one on some of Argonne's trenches, for instance.)


don't want to open a new thread so here goes: ammo crates currently only fill your reserve ammo to max, but not total max. what does that mean? say you only have a couple rounds left in your last MG 08/15 belt and then go to an ammo crate, you will refill your reserve ammo, but the belt currently in the gun stays how it is, which means you're missing out on maybe over 100 potential rounds right now (german LMGs right now inaccurately have over 100 rounds per belt but i already noted that in another thread).

now of course you could still swap forth and back between tiers and respawn with a fully loaded gun in between waves, but many new guys simply don't know that. i noticed new guys with LMGs running from one ammo crate to refill and reload, then run to the next crate (if available) to refill again, so they get back their max number of rounds. however this is very time consuming and ultimately annyoing.

thus, make it so the total number of possible rounds gets refilled every time, not just the total number of spare ammo.

Community Input Needed

Discussion/input on this will be needed whether ammo crates add value to the game and if this suggested implementation is indeed the way to go forward.


Looking over the most recent discussions about ammo resupply in general, there have been a few ideas shared. [Link] [Link]

--Intra-Squad Resupply:   Where a certain role can give ammo to the others. e.g. NCOs / Riflemen giving ammo to the MG roles when they're empty.

--Phase Change Resupply:  Where all squads are resupplied after capturing the trench or successfully defending the trench.

Intra-Squad resupply would be interesting, but maybe it is a little too dependent upon others who may or may not cooperate. (Intentionally or not) A phase change dependent resupply encourages objective gameplay and it is the simplest, but IMO, it doesn't really offer an another strategic layer to the gameplay.

The added strategic depth being like above (point 8 and on) and if the ammo counts of squads and loadouts are adjusted to more historically accurate amounts*. (See the proposed ammo for pistols as sidearms and the change for Recon Squads having less ammo on the Balancing Doc.)

Note:  The latter does in a way fall in line with Temujin's post here about the amount of magazines for a MG role's sidearm.

Overall, having the ability to resupply ammo and (some) grenades in some shape or form would reduce the amount of suicides to just get more and continue playing a certain role during a match. RSW's idea wouldn't exactly reduce the amount of resupply suicides from attackers who run out however but it does, in the end, encourage them to capture the trench in order to secure a resupply. (You can and should only provide overwatch / covering fire for so long from NML during an attack, as players still need to get in the trench.)

*P.S. It sort of goes along the same lines as the ammo crates in Tannenberg, if the amount of ammo was lowered, by giving more value / weight to securing/capturing the ammo supply.

greatly approve of this post. it is right to not see this issue isolated from other issues like further nerfing of pistols/automatic guns. i believe the addition of "intra-squad resupply" could greatly improve teamplay while at the same time reduce 'pistol spamming' from 'lone wolfs' and related issues.

of course there's no guarantee your teammates will resupply you, but other than the obvious advantage of keeping your own LMG firing, resupplying could also come with an XP boost or assist points from resupplied LMGs or something like that.